Township to Introduce Budget with Average $63 Tax Hike Tonight
The township committee voted to prepare the municipal budget for introduction with a tax increase and the deferment of school taxes at tonight's meeting
The township committee voted to prepare the municipal budget for introduction at the next caucus meeting tonight, April 26, with a proposed tax increase of $63.24 per year for the average homeowner.
“Unfortunately, we’re in a situation right now where that’s part of what we have to do here,” Committeeman Sean Sharkey said.
A tax increase would amount to $5.27 per month for the average homeowner assessed at $317,924, Chief Financial Officer Adrian Fanning said in a letter to the committee.
The committee is also proposing deferring school taxes by $1.1 million.
Sharkey and Committeewoman Helen DelaCruz went through each department’s operating budgets, questioning line items and the possibility of further cuts.
“It is a really unfortunate situation we’re in now,” DelaCruz said. “People aren’t any better off this year from last year. When it comes to our spending, it was a very difficult thing to do.”
The committee agreed to $22,000 in cuts including a $20,000 decrease in legal services. The rest of the funds were taken from training for an employee in the Planning Board office, overtime for two employees in Solid Waste and Recycling, printing for Public Health Services and a contingency line item.
Approximately $110,000 was originally set aside for legal services, of which Laureigh had planned to use some of those funds for foreclosures, which will now be put off until 2013.
Even with the additional savings, the township could not go without the deferment of school taxes or a tax increase, Mayor Mark Dykoff said.
Sharkey pushed for further cuts in some areas but not all were feasible.
If line items are cut and the departments need more money, they’ll run into a deficiency, Township Administrator Veronica Laureigh explained. The governing body would then have the authorization to transfer money from other departments to make up for it. If money were unavailable to transfer, the township would have to do an emergency appropriation.
“Next year’s going to be just as bad as this year,” Dykoff said. “If we cut it too close to the bone, it just hurts us going forward.”
Although the $22,000 in savings is minute compared to the approximate $500,000 shortfall the township is facing, it’s still a “real plus,” Committeeman Gary Quinn said.
“This budget is really bare bones,” he said. “We’re trying to buy our way through the economic times.”
The committee turned down all new hires and promotions, he said.
Approximately $3.6 million will be utilized in this budget through the township’s balance and deferring school taxes, which is $200,000 less than last year, Fanning said in his letter. The total revenue being utilized is more than $214,000 less than last year.
Since the school district approved a budget with a $99 tax increase to the average homeowner for the year, the deferment of school taxes will go up next year. But the township needs to look towards new ways to generate revenue in the future, Quinn said.
“There are going to be ways that are not going to be popular ideas to approach but we’re going to have to approach them,” he said. “We at a municipal level provide a tremendous amount of services for our residents and get very, very minimal dollars.”
In upcoming years, the township may have to reach out to entities that they provide for to chip in, he said.
“It has to be run as a business,” he said. “Once we get past this budget, we need to move forward with those ideas and prepare for next year.”
Bill Moss of Forked River pointed that the money residents spend for taxes go to the schools, county and township.
“Our schools get the biggest share of everything,” he said. “Everybody comes down on this council for taxes being raised. It is not this council…These people up here spend the least amount of our tax money than anyone else and this town gives us back more than anybody else.”
Tonight, the committee will vote on a resolution to defer school taxes. If that resolution is passed, the committee will then introduce the budget.
The township is aiming to hold a public hearing and adopt the municipal budget by Thursday, May 24.
LT Guy
7:39 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
Funny, how the "tough decisions" are going to be put off until next year, when Quinn & Dykoff are not up for re-election. You'd think the two Democrats who are up next year would push a little harder for some of it this year. Also, what happened to Mr. Most's promise of an audit of every department? We're being told they are working with "bare bones" but I see no substantiation. How about keeping the promise? Taking the word of those sitting up on the dias does not sit well with this taxpayer.
Steve
2:51 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Your right on the money...the thought you forgot.
Joe Stewart
8:26 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
Great so thats $63 from the town and $99 from the schools. Way to go Lacey!
Steve
2:52 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Joe, beware, their NOT done yet !!
patricia doyle
8:55 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
The fact that next year will bring layoffs or a referendum that increases taxes above 2% is almost inevitable, and yet the committee dances around it like the big white elephant in the room. Could it be politics over what's best for Lacey? The longer you wait, the worse it gets. Someone on the committee needs to be brave enough (for the good of our town) to take the bull by the horns and deal with this issue now, not later. The starting point is an audit of positions, processes and procedures - we say that the township is "bare bones," but where is the objective evidence? How do we know that there aren't cuts that can be made, or perhaps more services can be delivered with what we have? The starting point is the audit that Mr. Most promised during his campaign. Has it ever been done? Lt Guy is right - someone needs to start pushing this issue.
Steve
2:53 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Oh how true it is..
Dave Sleeper
9:08 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
Good job by our township committee, Democrats and Republicans both. Prices rise, cost of gas is through the roof and somehow they managed to only increase the tax bill $63.00. Well, I'm ok with that.
Steve
2:54 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Dave, Please BEWARE, their not done yet..
Xavier
9:17 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
Does Lacey do any shared services? Just curious.
underground526
9:32 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
I'm a state/federal employee and we have a raise freeze.... that's a good idea for everyone across the country... either like the pay you get or find another job... we are all in this together... 52% toll increase was a big enough insult
GB Shore
3:06 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
A breath of frsh air and common sense from a government worker. I am serious...THANK YOU sir for being honest and open minded as opposed to partisan on all this. It gives me hope that we can make this work...there just has to be enough people on both sides who are not partisan and are willing to compromise.
GB Shore
9:48 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
I think that we really have cut what can be cut from an operational perspective. The fire trucks needed to be addressed....they were so old....police cars, not so sure about and we certainly do not need automatic weapons.... What people do not want to discuss is the elephant in the room....the union contracts...both for the township and the Schools...it is the single biggest expense and the answer is to negotiate new contracts based on the realities of today's new economy...the days of paid benefits and paying for things like longevity, uniform cleaning allowances should be OUT....people ahve to start paying a LOT more for healthcare like private sector....the current model cannot be sustained and it will bakrupt every town and the state...and if Obama gets re-elected, God forbid, we will gget into a place where we will not be able to dig ourselves out of with the insane spending and lax governance and oversight. BTW....Wisconsin, where the Governor said no and the State was deep in the red? Remember Scott Walker? Well, the State of Wisconsin is now in the black, which benefits everyone...no special games, no special interest or breaks for anyone and no "rich make out".....across the board...and the unions there want to throw him out...those people are IDIOTS who want to do that...they are selfish people and the worst of the union folks...they give unions the bad name...
Bob Smith
10:56 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
Get real people... The town is broke.. Has been for several years and your elected officials are incompetent, have made continuous bad decisions which have had an adverse impact on the town but most noticeably on the taxpayer who is the one who has to pay again for the continued inefficiences of the town. Where are the layoffs? The town needs to let go 20% of its workforce and its going to be done one way or another. Mr, Quinn is up for election and the last thing he wants is that kind of controversey but he must realize that in the taxpayers view he is a total failure. The township committees Get a F for failure on every front. The Republicans in control are just big spenders of everyones money and the democrats just sit there and go along with it because they dont have any backbone either. I dont know how these elected officials can sleep at nite. They have no clue of the burden they continue to put on the poor, unemployed, the elderly and the middle class who have had to tighten their belts. Why cant out town show some leadership for a change and follow suit. Isnt that what leadership is all about leading.... Not following. What a total failure........
Steve
2:56 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Oh how true it is !
GB Shore
3:08 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Reality is that even with a 20% cut, it is not going to solve our problem. Nedd to deal with the big tiecket item and that is the bloated BOW NJEA union for the schools. THAT is the elephant in the room. Also, what is the plan if we lose out State funding? I've been asking that for years...I NEVER get a repsonse other than it is that we are protected...BS !!!!! If the State goes belly up, we are dead in the water...don't think this can't happen...it can...
Donna
11:32 am on Friday, April 20, 2012
But they are still spending money on the railroad right-of-way project!!! Why don't they cancel that bond now and stop allowing Gilmore and T&M Associates to continue to spend our money!!! Oh and sell the right-of-way to the Trust for Public Land or the NJ Conservation Foundation!!
Steve
4:58 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
It is a disgrace if they are continuing to allow spending on this road to nowhere.
tr
12:21 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Scary as it may seem to everyone, and I have been in Lacey for over 26 years, it is time for major changes. Maybe it is time for consolidation and regionalization and the elimination of the existing bully pulpits of "home rule". Manchester, Ocean, and Berkley may all be likely targets for this NEW GENRE of government leadership called "localized" globalization. Combineing services based on demographics rather than politics. Politics "as usual" would be a thing of the past and the word FUTURE would be used more often than it is used now in local government!!!! The (2) two party system has failed the "local" taxpayer. INDEPENDANT new and creative leadership, unbeholding to any politcal machine, is the only alternative left for the taxpayer to follow. Bold and austere decisions about the cutting of services to the community,such as, closing parks, eliminating garbage pick up, using parttime non-union workers in municipal government jobs with no benefits, and pay as you go budgeting being the normal way to run the Township and School District should be considered. Emergency services have to be maintained, but, these also can be merged with neighboring towns in a regionalized cost saving organization that is not politically "home based" but, again, based on population and logistical geography. INDEPENDANT leadership and freedom of speech, this is the American way, IT IS TIME!!!
GB Shore
3:10 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
ME LIKEY VERY MUCH!!!!!!!
Bob Smith
9:51 am on Monday, April 23, 2012
You are so right. Independent leadership it the way to go. People who are only beholden to the taxpayer and no one else.
diane
12:37 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Linda you are right on target with your comments about the road. Almost a million dollars wasted to date on that vanity project. It needs to be shut down, make it into a park to be enjoyed by all. Also, we were told last year that the cost of running the lights at the various parks was approximately $85,000. for the year and, that in future, the entities using the lights would need to pay for them. Does anyone know if that has been done?
local_mamma
2:17 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
The road is a waste of time and money. Another waste is the use of township cars for personal/commuter use. I've seen an LMUA vehicle drive from Rt. 37 in Toms River to the LMUA building every morning this week.
Steve
2:47 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
All of the above comments with the exception of JOE STEWART are on the MONEY!
Lay Off 20 % of all of the employees, cut trash pick up to once a week, combine services with other towns, get rid of the "Hall/Bathroom Police" substatute teachers in the high school, the township doesn't need to pay two employees to ride around in a truck pulling a trailer to pick up leafs...get real..let the people take care of their own leafs...please can anyone tell me why the Police Department had two vehicles (Running of Course) and two (I hope Volunteers: HA, HA, ) Officers on Clairmore Ave. Lanoka Harbor, directing traffic so the contractors could connect the sewer line for the new house...Oh that's right...the speed limit is just too fast (25mph) for the contractor to control the traffic on this Major Highway like the tree trimmers do, and of course the Gas is free too...Replace the counsel members as they come up for election would be a great start..maybe the others would see the guiding light..I know, WISHFUL THINKING !
Joe
3:02 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
@steve I agree with all you said ,but most likely the contractors are paying the police
Steve
4:37 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
Joe, and guess who's paying for the gas, oil, and up keep on the two vehicles...? I wonder ? but I'll bet it's the us..The Tax Payer !
lacey voter
5:42 pm on Friday, April 20, 2012
I am waiting for the layoffs. 20% of these employees are useless
TP
9:22 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Come on now, what's another $5.27 per month. Someone has to pay for the Stardubs $122,000 per year pension . . . . along with the pensions and benes of all the other "hard-working" retired public "servants". LAYOFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The public servants don't know what hard work is.
TP
9:24 am on Saturday, April 21, 2012
$122,000 annual pension. That's what retired Lacey Superintendent Richard Stardub receives courtesy of Joe/Jane Taxpayer.
William J Moss
12:36 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
TP don't confuse the township with the school system . township only raised the taxes by$63.00 . starodub school taxes went up by $99.00 . County wants another $96.00 I think .
tr
2:46 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
overtaxed: TP is not confused!!!! To the average taxpayer, both of these government organizations are representative of the ONE tax bill that is being paid. Both of these elected groups of leaders are influenced by the FAILED AND FLAWED (2) TWO PARTY SYSTEM OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT. The only way to correct the system, is to dismantle the power structure of that system by voting INDEPENDTLY of their candidates. Remember this in November! Freedom from tryanny, proper representation of the citizens,and INDEPENDANCE is what America was born from. Let us hope that that same spirit has not died!
Fake Name
4:30 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
Anyone else find it ironic that this idiot cites the same principles the Founding Fathers used, when they created the "FAILED AND FLAWED (2) TWO PARTY SYSTEM"
RandomHero27
4:55 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
I just find it annoying and laughable that he/she consistently misspells the words he/she insists on typing in all capital letters (IndependEnce). Talk about really driving your point home...
William J Moss
8:16 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
I did not know there was a 2 party system in the school elections If you read the above comments TP refers to the township as the ones responsible for Mr Starodoves retirement using the increase of $5.27 Per month that is not so . The school increase is a couple of dollars higher That is where his retirement benefits come in in the 40 million they correct for taxes
G.K. Chesterton
6:26 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
Actually, the founders did not create a two party system. They hoped to install a party-less system led by disinterested public servants.
tr
5:12 pm on Saturday, April 21, 2012
The founding fathers created the modern republican and democratic parties? Wow I didn't know that!!! Misspellings forced the reader to really concentrate on what was being written. Thanks, I knew it would work!
Forked Tongue
6:43 am on Sunday, April 22, 2012
Fake Brain
There is no restrictions on the number of parties. Maybe you should have skipped a few parties and spent some time in the class room.
Fake Name
9:51 pm on Sunday, April 22, 2012
Forked Tongue.
I didn't say that. They set up the winner take all system of elections that still exist in this country. It's basic American History, there's never been a elongated period of 3rd Party Representation.
According to Wikipedia, since the end of Reconstruction, you know the period after the Civil War, the United States has only been represented by 111 3rd Party Representatives, 31 3rd Party US Senators and 22 3rd Party Governors.
But you probably went to Central.
Forked Tongue
10:15 pm on Sunday, April 22, 2012
Actually you did say that, then apparently deleted the comment. Quoting Wikipedia wow you are the ultimate scholar.
TP
9:56 am on Monday, April 23, 2012
ATTENTION SENIOR CITIZENS! Be aware of this and let fellow seniors know!!
President Obama’s Medicare slush fund— http://nyp.st/I4Ux35
Fake Name
11:02 am on Monday, April 23, 2012
Forked, I never deleted the comment, perhaps you flagged it as inapproriate, but you can continue to lie about what I didn't say.
Are you going to refute what I quoted from Wikipedia? Or are you just going to continue to be wrong and ignorant.
Forked Tongue
9:59 am on Tuesday, April 24, 2012
I'm sure you voted for Obama ... enough said.
Bill M
3:56 pm on Monday, April 23, 2012
I was watching the township council last night discuss the budget regarding the purchase of equipment for certain departments. The police chief said his fleet of cars are 10yrs old and better and the maintenance department must cannibalize other vehicles in order to keep his fleet running.
Then you have the Road department who is seeking 2 new dump trucks due to the fact that the ones in use are 25 yrs old according to what councilman Most said.
My question is where have the incumbents been during their tenure Regarding these issues. Why, has it taken this long to address them. especially in a damn recession when funding is tight. . In my opinion. In the case of the dump trucks these vehicles should have been replaced yrs ago if they were deteriorating. The council should have been replacing this equipment during that time period with a truck every so many yrs until the fleet was at a competent level of operation, then sell off the older vehicles while they were still in good shape to offset the cost of the new vehicle. The same thing applies to the PD fleet. They should have been replaced the minimum of 1 to 2 cars a yr. To avoid cannibalization of other police vehicles in order to keep the fleet in operational condition. until the fleets oldest vehicle is 5 yrs. old. This is just a lack of poor long term planning by the incumbents on the township council.
Steve
4:28 pm on Monday, April 23, 2012
This is poor planning and the TC is accountable. It goes further though. The department heads and CFO should be putting a plan together to address this longer term and presenting solutions instead of hoping they will be able to "afford" is next year.
Bill M
5:12 pm on Monday, April 23, 2012
During the meeting the chief of police mentioned that he had a few officers retiring. those salaries could be set aside and earmarked for future PD equipment and vehicles. the same goes for other township departments.
as far as layoffs go. I am not in favor of that. i can not see adding to the umemployment rolls. I am in favor of not replacing any retirees until such time the economy shows improvement. until then there just going to have to improvise, adapt and overcome.
Bill M
5:26 pm on Monday, April 23, 2012
another thing mentioned at the meeting was that the township employee contracts are due to expire at the end of the year. hopefully the unions will reconize the financial situation the towhship is in and be considerate in their damands. I would think that these contracts account for a large portion of the budget.
tr
9:31 pm on Monday, April 23, 2012
There is no such thing in local politics as future planning. Future planning only means to them, until the next election. Example, tonight, 7pm Municipal Alliance meeting(politically appointed leader - republicans) , tonight also Board of Education(NJEA influenced- democrats) meeting 7pm. How can a concerned citizen be in two places at one time??? Another example of the failed two party system in LOCAL government. The republicans and democrats may be the only politically powerful enough parties to lead on the state and federal levels, but, they have failed to demonstrate consistently documented fairness LOCALLY. The taxpayers need to demand fair, concerned, and INDEPENDANT leadership at these lower levels of government. Fake Name and Forked Tongue,yes, I know, but, if one throws enough of it against the wall, hopefully, some of it is bound to stick!!!!
TP
10:52 am on Thursday, April 26, 2012
AFP Blasts Trenton’s “Dangerous and Destructive” Foreclosure Scheme, Launches Effort to Defea... http://t.co/mvoNlW7n #afp #tcot #taxmin
There goes the neighborhood (unless you speak up to your reps in Trenton)
tr
12:19 pm on Thursday, April 26, 2012
I cannot wait to see the State of New Jersey (Republicans and Democrats) elected officials, mandate that a waterfront $1,000,000 dollar home, in Sunrise Beach, that is in foreclosure, be turned into affordable housing. It would be purchased by a QUALIFYING couple that will adopt 10 inner city, 17 year old, poor disadvantaged children "saving them" from their drug ravaged future. This will keep the donut crowd at the Municipal Alliance busy! I just love the wisdom of all our current leaders. Time for Independent and fearless political direction.
Fake Name
1:26 pm on Thursday, April 26, 2012
Forked, since you are apparently paranoid and think I have multiple handles, probably because you do. There is no "socialist" nation, that's just McCarthy talk, I mean Joe not Eugene.
But you just listen to either the Republican Controlled Fox News or you are a Ron Paulite, and I'm not sure what is scarier.
As far as parties on the ballot, there can be as many as wish. But in 99% of elections one of two parties win, which is all thanks to the "Winner Take All" system that the Founding Fathers created.
Forked Tongue
2:25 pm on Thursday, April 26, 2012
Faked
Which entitlement program are you on that you don't equate with socialism. Or are you just collecting one of those state pensions?
You better check Wikipedia, Joe McCarthy was on a Communist witch hunt not a socialist hunt. Your boy Obama hasn't crossed that line yet.
Bob Smith
9:45 am on Friday, April 27, 2012
Will all of you people please turn out for the actual budget hearing which should be about 30 days from now and tell the elected officials who are brain dead to stop the outrageous spending. Sean Sharkey saying that its tough but we have to do it.. (raise taxes) is an outrage. When someone is elected to office they are elected to come up with ideas to reduce spending and costs. They should each come up with hundreds of ideas per year. Most of them will be stupid but a few good ideas would come out and appear. Have you heard any ideas from this ignorant body we have here? Its time to storm the Bastille.!!
Steve
10:18 am on Friday, April 27, 2012
I agree the TC needs to come up with ideas but the CFO needs to step up too!! Instead of just reading out the numbers, proposals should be initiated in consultation with the TC. Maybe there is something coming out of that office but I don't read about those ideas, all I read about is departments coming and asking for budget and some choices are made. I hope the CFO is digging into the numbers and making recomendations for now and the future.
GB Shore
10:50 am on Friday, April 27, 2012
There are certain things that need to be addressed. the fire company has been working with 30-40 year old equipment. That is money well spent. The stretcher for the EMS is money well spent. Things like the road etc. is not money weel spent. Elected officials are not elected to just reduce spending and costs. They are elected because people think they will mange the town properly and be good stewards with our tax dollars. The TC's in my 10 years have failed miserably and it does not matter if it is Dem or Rep. Actually the Rep's in this town act more like dems.... Bottom line, you are directing your anger at the wrong meeting and set of people...the TC, aside from the road etc, has pretty much cut what they can cut. What they need to do is look how to reconfigure people and process so that we can work more efficiently with less....things like shared services and MOST important, take a HARD line with ALL the unions when contracts are up. The main focus should be on the BOE....that is the single biggets titcket item on your tax bill...by FAR....start going to those meetings and start beating them up because that is where the biggest waste is and where the biggest problem lays....that NJEA Union....
Steve
1:39 pm on Friday, April 27, 2012
Mr. Smith, Your JOKING right...Most of these people don't even turn out to Vote...if they did we wouldn't see the same old S..t !!!
salty dog
1:23 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
gb shore and forked tongue are typical of those who are in the republican bubble . and yes forked tongue if you voted for mc cain was not sara palin on the same ticket? thats the thing with these people their memories dont go back before jan 20th 2009 . because on jan 19th 2009 the country was saying goodbye to a 19% approval rating president that had left us 2 unpaid wars, medicare part d also unpaid for, a recession and the worst economic meltdown since the depression and 400,000 jobs being lost a month. now gb and forked here want us to return to those same failed policies of trickle down voo doo economics that was a disaster under reagan only now they call it "the job creators" newsflash those jobs were shipped overseas years ago by those job creators . speaking of which romney was 47th in the country at job creation . he was better at gutting companies like dade international for which he put thousands in one company alone on the breadline. romney who wont even disclose what his income taxes are. swiss bank accounts hidden money in the caymans and as for scott walker georgie the majority of wisconsin citizens want him gone but by your logic every resident of wisconsin is of course in a union. yeah right
GB Shore
1:08 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
Hey Salty, how can you put a tag on me? You have no idea who I am...that is the problem with people like YOU...you think you know it all. I am neither a Dem or Rep or Tea Partier...I am unaffiliated....I sit where we all should sit...in the middle...I have conservative leanings to some things and liberal leanings to others....sorry, but it is people like YOU who are the problem who wants to put everyone in a nice neat little box...anything other than that gets you all out of sorts....
salty dog
1:33 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
oh and forked tongue allen west ( republican from florida who has mainly seniors in his district) has tried 3 times to gut medicare for all those "entitled" seniors living large on $ 900 a month . joe mc carthy said " i have in my hand here a list of 205 communists here in washington' allen west this year said " at least 80 democrats in the house are communists" like yogi berra said " its deja vu all over again' . these teabaggers are a comical bunch standing in the walmart parking lot dressed like it was the 1700s. they say keep your govt hands off our medicare and we want small govt and then vote in republicans who first thing they do is go after medicare. and when these ben franklin re enactment characters say to these republicans " how could you do this to us?" the republicans say to them " you wanted us to shrink govt right?" . sad
salty dog
1:38 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
and sara palin the half term gov of one of the biggest welfare states in the country. a state that got $1.81 for every dollar it paid in taxes. a gov that had to write in her palm " lower taxes" . sad
Forked Tongue
8:13 pm on Saturday, April 28, 2012
Old Salty Dog. Have another 6 pack you'll feel better.
DSmith
7:13 am on Sunday, April 29, 2012
Reading this rhetoric its hard to believe that faked brain, salty dog and newt moon base are not the same person. At least they think with the same brain.
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.". Thomas Jefferson
GreenJacketBoy
10:23 am on Sunday, April 29, 2012
I just wanna be myself and I am my hair. Lady Gaga. Now those are words you can live by.
GB Shore
1:13 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves". - Abraham Lincoln
Bob Smith
10:35 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
Beg to differ with you. But you can only push the down trodden so far. I remember in a far off land across the pond 1793 where the masses rose up against the ruling class and said enough.. Off with their heads... It seemed to work well there. You can take from the rich, many who have made their wealth on the backs of the working class. Greed is a killer and I cant imagine being able to sleep at nite having a ton of money when there is so much need in the world. Re-distrubition of wealth is not such a bad thing. Its been happening quite successfuly in Argentina the last few years and has got their economy rolling. If you took just half the wealth of the wealthy and let them keep the other half and released it we would be out of the recession in a minutes. How much money does someone need? That is the big question... The greater good is more important then a bunch of fat cats destroying whats left of the middle class because their is never too much money for them.....
GB Shore
7:45 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012
Well Bob...you are not disagreeing with me....you are disagreeing with Abe Lincoln. Further, what our founding fathers envisioned was something quote different than the tyranny they fought for against the British. It was a vision of a never before in the history of mankind type of society. You would like to and are trying to make what we have today fit and compare to what our founders faced. Your error in analysis here is that CAPITALISM is what our foundation is built on. Is it perfect? No. However, I will take it over any other form of government. Your analysis is also faulty because if you want to take half of what they worked for away, then what is the incentive for ANYONE to work hard? You see, you are falling into the Socialist trappings....because the next logical argument for those who want to take away from those who earned is government control. That is what you are supporting in your argument. So, I would fight to the death before I let someone take away my hard earned money to give it to someone who sits on their arse. NOTE....there are PLENTY examples of philanthropy and people of this country donate and help those truly in need at an unprecedented level (People...rich "bad" folks like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs MITT ROMNEY...yes Mitt Romney, have given billions for the betterment of our society).
Steve
9:49 am on Tuesday, May 1, 2012
Bob Smith, why don't you go create some wealth and then give it away instead of asking others to do it. You could also move to Argentina and live the high life there.
Bob Smith
11:52 am on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
so I dont agree with you at all. I know many people with much wealth and they did not work for it they inherited it!! So there goes that idea about people working hard for anything. What about all the people who work hard every day for some business while the owner gets richer and richer and their buying power gets smaller and smaller. Capitalism needs great regulation to work successfully and it certainly has not been working great here lately. The Banking crisis to name just one such shennigans. Watch the film "Inside Job" and tell me that capitalism is so great. Sure its great if your rich but if your poor or middle class your just surviving. Surviving is not a pretty place and the country is totally misguided in its principals. Fighting phony wars, selling the middle class down the tubs. What we have here is a Corporatacracy and I dont want the corporations controlling my life and controlling the government that is not what the founding father had envisioned for your country.
messages from newt's moonbase
2:31 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
gb class warfare is merely another bumper sticker slogan thought up by republicans. not since the 1920s has there been such a difference between the very poor and the very rich. most of this the result result of what reps have done from reagan's failed trickle down voo doo economics to now known as the job creators and bush tax cuts. the supreme court allowing "corporations are people" that romney loves was the worst thing that happened to this country . now exxon or pepsi can put a president in office with millions in anonymous donations into these super pacs. we in this gop race had 3 uber billionaires throwing unlimited money at the puppets they were backing. you have 400 men in this country owning and controlling more of the wealth than the other 150 million americans. and what do reps want to do? increase taxes on those on the poverty line while reducing taxes on millionaires who already have an army of tax lawyers spending all day finding loopholes . never in history have we had a candidate who has swiss bank accounts and shelters in the caymans while republicans want to lower the minimum wage and tax those kids in mc donalds even more . as for women as grothman said "money is more important to men than women" yea trying telling your wife that and see what answer you get.
GB Shore
7:22 am on Monday, April 30, 2012
just more of the same BS rhetoric that we see all the time. There are so many false statements in here it is unreal, especially the one about Reps wanting to reduce the minimum wage. People like you who keep repeating this garbage actually start to believe that it is true. It is a partisan person like you who holds back getting anything meaningful done. Just like your conservative counterparts, it is people like you and those opposite you who are the problem. People like me who sit in the middle are the ones left holding the bag because people too far left or right continue to fight like little babies, trying to say their way is the right way...the only way. It is GARBAGE. And BTW, there have been plenty of super rich Democrats in office. Anbother extremely laughable comment.
messages from newt's moonbase
2:32 pm on Sunday, April 29, 2012
and forked tongue , db smith and tp the next time i drive by walmarts can you wave? i would like to see which one is daniel boone and which is sam adams. lol
tr
9:36 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
Republicans vs. Democrats vs.Tea party vs. Communists vs. Socialists, no wonder ordinary citizens in the past ran to the Fascists for strong and Independent leadership. An unbiased dictator unaffiliated to any political adjenda but, one who is only concerned about the future of their local community is what is required at our municipal level of government. An equal opportunity hater of all political parties. Is their such a brave and courageous AVENGER out there??? Who among us posters ,on this website, know of such an individual? If so, convince that person to run for either the TC or BOE or both!!! Personel attacks are counter productive to solving our local issues and demeaning to those it is being directed towards. I am TR, not anyone else, and yes I do speak bluntly about what is on my mind even though I may have had poor speling skills!!!
messages from newt's moon base
10:12 pm on Monday, April 30, 2012
tr an independent candidate is a noble idea and i wish it were possible but sadly we live in a two party system .
neutron man
1:20 pm on Wednesday, May 2, 2012
hey forked tongue maybe you should go to wikipedia yourself and look at the definition of the phrase "forked tongue" it means liar. congrats on picking a well fitting name for yourself . lol